Little People, Big Ideas

In which Dan talks about addressing hard topics and fielding tough questions from our smallest students with Kat Nguyen, a Kindergarten teacher in California. How do early childhood teachers address the questions and comments that inevitably arise, especially in this hypermedia era when students of all ages are likely to notice, see, overhear and wonder?

Dan and Kat talk about being honest, authentic, and vulnerable with students, the perils of this election year, and her book recommendations for young students.

Books mentioned in the episode:
No Turkey For Thanksgiving by Jacqueline Jules and Kathryn Mitter
Red: A Crayon's Story by Michael Hall
Stand Tall, Molly Lou Melon by Patty Lovell and David Catrow

Music: Que Es Estraño by Molo

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I feel like students need you to be as honest as you can. And I'm very, I mean, and and we look at them like, oh, they're four, they're five, they're really young, they're six. Students, kids know. Like we don't, I mean, for me, like honestly, personally for me, I don't do the baby talk. Like I'm very honest with my kids, you know, and I feel like it's one of those things where topics will come up, and whether no matter what I feel about it, I respect the student. Like, it's a great question, or I understand how you feel. Because I, you know, I treat them the way I want. It's the golden rule that we teach our students.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Welcome to What's the Big Idea? I'm your host, Dan Carney. Today's episode is uh ultimately about the universality of teaching, about our common goals, the conversations we have and the way we guide our students. At least that's what I realized after interviewing Kat Wynn, a kindergarten teacher in California. Full disclosure here, I've known Kat for years as both a colleague and as a parent. She taught my son. And I reached out to her because I've long admired her willingness to take on hard topics both in the staff room and in the classroom. After last episode, where I interviewed Erica Hodgin of Facing History about this election year and how teachers can prepare themselves for potentially sticky conversations, I started thinking about the little ones in our schools. How, I wondered, do early childhood teachers address the tough questions that inevitably arise, especially in this hypermedia era when students of all ages are likely to notice see overhear and wonder. What surprised me, but really shouldn't have in hindsight, was how much Kat's approach mirrors my own and that of a lot of teachers I've worked with across all grade levels. No matter who you teach, where you teach, no matter your subject, I think you'll enjoy the wisdom of our common goals in Kat's responses.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

So um Cadwin. I have been teaching almost 20 years now, and I started off early education. So I did a lot of years, 10 years uh EK, which is about four, going on to five, getting ready to go to kindergarten. And then after 10 years, I transitioned into kindergarten. So I've been there for the past like nine, I think this is my ninth year. It's been a while. And I've been at the same school, same area, but I grew up like far from the Orange County area.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Well, I want to thank you so much, Kat, for joining me. Um, long admired how you uh create safe learning environments for young children. Um, and so I wanted to talk today about big ideas, small children. Um, and I want to just kind of start by asking in general terms, how do you approach establishing a safe learning environment for your kindergarten?

SPEAKER_02 3:06

You know, it's kindergarten is the best age to teach. I mean, they're so ready to learn and they they're so anxious and they they take everything that you say. And so you have to be careful on what you say. But I was thinking about this, I feel like before you even approach that part, I feel like teachers really have to know themselves. And I think that's where when I reflect, I'm like, that's how why I'm so passionate about it. Because it wasn't until recently I attended a conference with you, um, the uh P POCC conference. That was really when it all hit me, like, wow, I've been living on this earth for this long. And I never really like identified myself as anything, but like a person living in Orange County, I never embraced my culture really. And it was like after that conference, I was like, wow, like I really need to start embracing who I am as a person. With that, you take into the classroom your story and things that you can share and connect to with the kids and with our students, especially my classroom. It's a place where like you cannot be afraid to ask questions. There's no such thing as a silly question. Like everyone's questions are valid. You shouldn't be afraid to ask anything because research is fun. Finding out answers is fun, asking questions is fantastic because you get to put it on the wonder wall and it's like a big thing for little kids, you know? And I feel like just having that background of like your own story, you're able to connect with kids and then you're really more, you're more passionate about it because it's happened to you. So you have an understanding of where these kids are coming from. So I feel like in a learning environment, your kids have to be comfortable with you. They have to know that you're there for them, that you're not here to judge them, you're not here to boss them around because they're like the little kids. You're here to support them, you're here to to root, like just kind of root them on, like, you know, keep learning, keep going, keep keep asking questions. I love it when kids ask questions. And I always bring that up. Like, I love that question that you asked. No matter how little or how big the question, I love that you asked a question that's gonna help the rest of us learn. And then from that, we move on. But they can't be afraid. They have to be confident and they have to know that they're in a safe place.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

I love so much that you started with this idea of understanding yourself. If you don't understand your own biases, your own emotions, your own triggers, like you're gonna have a difficult time talking about difficult topics with your students. How do you process that in the moment with your students? If something comes up that you know you are particularly passionate about or is maybe a touchy subject for you, and you have very young students, you have kindergartners, how do you handle that in those moments?

SPEAKER_02 5:48

I feel like students need you to be as honest as you can. And I'm very, I mean, and and we look at them like, oh, they're four, they're five, they're really young, they're six. Students, kids know. Like, we don't, I mean, for me, like honestly, personally for me, I don't do the baby talk. Like I'm very honest with my kids, you know, and I feel like it's one of those things where topics will come up, and whether no matter what I feel about it, I respect the student. Like, it's a great question, or I understand how you feel because I, you know, I treat them the way I want. It's the golden rule that we teach our students. Treat others the way you want to be treated. So if I ask you a question, don't judge me on it. Be like, you know, and then answer me in a way that I understand. I'm gonna talk to a five-year-old, like a five-year-old, but I'm also gonna respect them as if they're just a like a human being, not that a five-year-old deserves more or less. It's like I'm a child, I'm asking you a question. I really want to know the answer and don't sugarcoat it to where it's not nowhere near the truth. It's like talk to me, help me understand it. And I that's the thing, like teachers, we're constantly making like decisions by the second. It's like, do I address this? Do I talk about it? Do I put it over here? Because never would I want a student to think and sit there and say, Oh, I just asked Miss Wynn a question and she completely dismissed it. Even if I can't talk about it, you know what? How about you and I talk about that later? It's a great question. I really want to talk to you about it. But how about you and I talk about that later? And just let them know I acknowledge you, I acknowledge your question. And I'll tell them too, like, you know, some kids, some friends are not ready to hear about these things, but if you want to talk about it, we can talk about it. I mean, even if it comes down to something as, you know, we I I work at a school where there are some kids that love the toothai and Santa Claus and Easter bunnies. And then I have kids who are like, what's a leprechaun? What is that? And you really, I mean, it's something as simple as that, where you as an adult, you're like, okay, like I know better, but these kids are in that moment, you know, and you have to respect the culture. Some cultures, I didn't grow up with that. So I understand completely how that child feels. Like, I want to believe in this, but at home, my mom told me it's not real. But the teacher is embracing the other kids as if it is real. So it's one of those things where some things you can talk about whole group, and then other things, like, let's you and I let's just sit and talk so I can really further and like explain to you why I did what I did.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

I love your answer because I know any teacher of any age level would be nodding right now, because this is exactly how we approach students in these in these classes that where topics like uh, you know, controversial or difficult topics come up. And and I I love that you use this example of a leprechaun or the tooth fairy, where it could be something that seemingly innocuous, small, that has larger implications about the way they see the world and uh cultures. And I I think that there's uh we were talking before um I started recording about the notion that I think some people have or want to have that with young children, if we don't talk about difficult things, they won't have to hear about it. We can protect them, we can shelter them. But the world is very different than when you and I are children. Media, social media, television has made it so that it is inevitable students will encounter difficult topics. And I kind of want to separate the conversation now between what are some things that you intentionally bring into your teaching, topics that you maybe touch on through your curriculum, through books, and then maybe what are things that just pop up in your experience where you suddenly are like, okay, that's not something I thought we'd have to talk about, but we're going to. But maybe maybe we can start with the first one. What are some things that you, some topics that you have incorporated in your curriculum that maybe can be difficult but are important for students to grapple with?

SPEAKER_02 9:41

I asked myself that, you know, when I when I see them in kindergarten, what is our ultimate goal for them? My ultimate goal is that they go through our school all the way to eighth grade and they graduate and they're happy and they're having fun and they're enjoying learning. But my goal for them is that when they step into outside this little bubble of ours, into the world, they're not like culture shocked, like what? And I want them to understand at a very early age that there are things going on in the world. And we talk about that in my classroom, and it's hard to bring up, and we we just make it. I feel like with little kids, if you don't make it a big deal, it's not a big deal. So if you talk about like, hey, kiddos, there are countries and there are places in the world where kids don't have food to eat. So we should be really mindful of how much food we're wasting because there are kids out there. And will I show pictures and will I show some videos? That's yeah, appropriate enough for five-year-olds and six-year-olds to see, just to know that there's there's a such thing as people who don't have homes to live in. There are kids out there, there are girls who cannot go to school. And it is, it is a shock to them. But luckily for me, the majority of times when I talk about those hard topics of like, there are girls who are not allowed to go to school in the world. And we get into this topic and then the questions start popping up why, where, is that gonna happen to us? It just really like, I can just see my students that they're taking it all in. It's a really hard topic. But luckily, like I said, for me, the parents are like, thank you so much for bringing this up. Like, we never talk about it at home, but now that you're at school and it's like it's the reality of things. And these kids, they understand it and then they have a more of like gratitude for what they have, like being at a school and being having clothes, having money, having someone pick you up. And again, that comes back from your teacher and what we have experienced. Like growing up, we didn't have any of this. So, you know, we share our experience. Like every year I talk about going to the laundromat with my kids, and they're like, What? I'm like, Yeah, there are certain places here in California where we live that people don't have washing machines because they can't afford it. The concept of having an apartment and living in a space that's smaller than a house is so mind-blowing to these kids. So those are the easy things to talk about. And then there are things that you're like, uh oh, you know, when the kids talk about G-U-N-S because they heard big brother or big sister talk about it. Or like, you know, this past year we had a child talk about school shootings, you know, and it was one of those things. Well, you know what? I I heard about that too. It's really sad what happened. Um, you and I, we can talk about that later, but some friends don't know about it, and it's okay, and they shouldn't know about it. And it's like I said, you address it, you make them like, okay, what you're saying is not nonsense. This is real, but you have them understand like other friends don't know about this, and it could scare them. So I don't want to do that to them, but I will talk to you about it because you did hear about it. And that's the hard part is like, do you want your kids knowing about that scary stuff? And but but they kind of hear it because we have these school drills now that we didn't have as kids. Growing up, we had earthquake, fire, and now we have this thing called a lockdown. And I don't understand, I feel like parents and teachers, like it's the scariest thing. The kids are like, oh, we have to stay quiet for five minutes. But in the back of every teacher's mind, it's like we're running through scenarios of like, oh my gosh, if this was real, like what would I do?

SPEAKER_00 13:01

And do do you find that your students ask about those drills? I think this is a great example of how the world has come to the classroom and you can't keep it out. Do they do they ask? I mean, do is it sort of a why are we doing this? What and do they want to know the specifics of what exactly this drill is about?

SPEAKER_02 13:21

We keep it as PC as possible. We tell them this is just in case someone who's not supposed to be at our school is gonna not come into a classroom. Like we want to keep whatever's outside out and we're gonna be safe on the inside. We tell them about the bees. Like if there are bees around the campus and we don't want to get stung, we want to make sure we're all inside. I mean, we kind of keep it that way, just letting them know that there's something outside that we don't want inside. And we're gonna stay quiet because in kindergarten, I have to hear the rules and directions. And if we're talking really loud, I can't hear it. So that's what they know. But every so often you will have a child that says, Well, it's because my brother said that someone might come and shoot and shoot us with a gun or whatever. And then you just, you know, you know, that's really sad. And that's I I hope that's never gonna happen. I don't think it's gonna happen, but we just practice this and then you kind of like you address it and then you kind of move on from it, and then you have to go back and check up with that student. Like, I'm really sad that you're thinking about this, but it's okay, just know that I'm here to keep you safe and I'm here to make sure that doesn't happen to you. So don't think about it too much. Like they know they're you, it's obvious that they're aware of it. They know it's here, they know it could happen. I don't understand they they fully grasp it, what that means, but they know the word gun and they know the word like intruder, they know the word like shoot, because you know, this is with like Star Wars play and like, you know, just how kids play nowadays. But you you know that it's already in their vocabulary, it's in their mind. So what you want to do is you want to ease that and just say, I would never let that happen to you. And this is why we do this, and this is why we practice this so I can keep you safe.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

That follow-up conversation, touching back in with that student is so important, though, isn't it? It's like just them knowing that you even care enough to follow back up, it can make such a difference at any age. And I'm and I'm glad you brought up siblings because if you're teaching kindergartners, many of them, I'm guessing, have older siblings that are going to influence them. And how how often do you see that where the words, the actions of an older sibling filter into your classroom?

SPEAKER_02 15:23

Oh my gosh, Dan, I'm at that age. I feel like I'm finally at that age in my teaching like journey where I have to look up certain things that I hear, and I'm like, what does that even mean? And it happened this year, and I would look at the other teacher in my classroom, like, what does that mean? Like, what is this? I don't, I don't, I don't know this. But you definitely hear it. You definitely see the behavior, you see the actions, and you're just like, you know, ask them like why? Like, why are you doing this? Like, why is it is it fun to you? And you know we you talk about it because sometimes they just kids at this age, they just they're like little parrots. They just repeat what they hear and they copy what they see. They don't know why. They just think because my big brother and big sister is doing it, it's really cool. But yes, we we see that a lot because now that they have their own phones at like fifth or sixth grade, there's not hiding anything, you know. And I have kids who in my own classroom, kindergarten, who can go on that iPad and call someone and just chat with another friend. And I'm like, how is this possible? And it's possible. And I feel like as teachers, we need to kind of keep up with that, like just know that our students are are really more advanced than we are now. Depending on how long you've been teaching. Like, I know for a fact, me being in my 40s and teaching for this long, that a kindergartner might know more on the iPad than I do and might know more of this stuff than I do. So I really have to make sure I keep up on my game so that I can be ready for anything.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Yeah, um that's keep staying on top of the technology game becomes increasingly difficult each year. And and and and the slang too, right? I mean, it's just funny to me being an eighth-grade teacher, just nonstop hearing the stuff. But then to think, yeah, of course it's gonna work its way down. I mean, my own children hear it, and then I guess it eventually then makes its way down to even the kindergartners. Um do you uh do you worry at all about or are you concerned at all, or do you have any sort of how's this gonna go with with uh an election coming up? Not that your students are political, not that they even understand necessarily what's happening, but again, just sort of the uh the atmosphere, the the the environment we live in where it everything's gonna turn political about the election over the next couple of months. Do you have any uh concerns or worries there?

SPEAKER_02 17:45

I am highly concerned. I'm I'm I'm scared for myself as an adult. As a teacher, I've seen many elections. Um, I feel like my my number one priority is like, yes, we are getting ready for a big thing in our country where we're gonna vote for the next president. These are the two people voting, and people have, you know, we talk about the difference between fact and opinion. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and everyone's entitled to like who they want to like, and that and we will respect that. And that's why that's exactly where I try to keep it with our students. I feel like the biggest part is that these parents understand how their feelings get onto their kids and how the kids, kids feel adult energy. If you're stressed, your kids are gonna be stressed. If you're sad, your kids are gonna be sad. They have no idea why. That's why, as a teacher, I'm always trying to stay positive because if I'm showing stress or frustration, my kids are gonna feel that. And then our whole day of learning is just out the window. I have seen at this at the place that I'm at, it's just years of elections where parents are crying because a certain person lost or a certain person won. Um, certain kids coming in repeating what their parents have said, and then kids then in the classroom going at each other like my dad is right. No, your dad is wrong. And then theref I am like, why are we doing this?

SPEAKER_00 19:00

So, what do you do in those scenarios? Because that's I think I feel like that is going to be a common theme across schools this year. From kindergarten to high school, students coming in with a mixture of their own understanding and opinion and also their parents' understanding and opinion. So, in that particular scenario that you just described, what's what's your approach when you see that?

SPEAKER_02 19:22

We I treat it like the Super Bowl. Because our kids are young. They don't know about politics, they don't know about these rules and these laws and these regulations that are about to be put in place or not put in place because of who we vote. All they hear is what their parents say. So I treat it like the Super Bowl. You have two teams, they're gonna play this game, and guess what? Everyone has their team. You're gonna support and root and wear those shirts and you know, wave those banners and you're gonna cheer for this team. But guess what? All we want is a respectful game where everyone has fun, and at the end, one person's gonna win. And no matter what, we're gonna respect that. It's called having good sportsmanship. And that's what it is. That's how I treat it. Like, you know what? Your dad and your mom and dad and your family, you're allowed to like that person. That's who they like. That's fantastic. This is who you like. Miss Wynn, I have a person too. I'm not gonna say who it is, but I also have a person that I'm rooting for. And then no matter what, that person's gonna be our president. And how do we treat our president? We have to treat them with respect. Just like we teach we treat our principal and our teachers and our librarians and our custodians, we treat them with respect because they have a job to do. And that's what I want my kids to understand is that, you know, despite what how their parents and how the family home is, how they're feeling about what's gonna happen, you as an individual, you're gonna show respect because that's how I am. I may or may not like you as a person, I'm gonna respect you, which means as long as you and I have that that that ground layer of respect, there's gonna be no problems. You do what you have to do, I'm gonna do what I have to do, we're gonna respect each other that much. And that's and that's what I want my kids to understand. You don't have to agree, you don't have to like the same things, you don't have to do the same things, you will respect each other regardless.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Part of those um the ground rules for making a creating a respectful learning environment, a safe learning environment. Absolutely. Um ask about books. Um how books work in your classroom in terms of helping students uh grapple and think about grapple with and think about um some some important ideas. If you have any particular books that you use that you're fond of.

SPEAKER_02 21:31

I I I got them. And like I said, it you know, and you and you know me, it took me over 10 years before I started telling people it's not new when it's win. So just having ownership of my name and my culture and where I come from. And these books that I like this one right here, this is called No Turkey for Thanksgiving. And and I tell my kids, this was Miss Wynn growing up. This is not me, but this was how I was because I so badly wanted to be like everyone else when it came to. Christmas and Thanksgiving, and I felt really different because my family didn't do what all the other families did. And you know, I just wanted to be like everyone else. And then reading books like this, I would tell them I found out what my family does is really special too. Like I don't have to have turkey for Thanksgiving. I can have duck like this character did. And other people don't celebrate Thanksgiving, and it's okay. There are so many things that we talk about and celebrate in schools, and that we don't realize not everyone does that. Not everyone does the tooth fairy, not everyone celebrates Christmas and things like that. Um, but books are a great way for kids to really like understand and see because there's pictures and everything. Another one I love, this is like I mean, I read this one every year. This one's called Red. And this is all about, and I'm all about, you know, doing what you do, no matter what, like being yourself. And this is about a little crayon who you can see he's blue, but he's labeled red. And his parents, all they do is like, how come you're being blue, you're not being red? He's like, I'm trying so hard. So what's the moral of the story? Like, you are who you are. And, you know, and then how I relate it is like I tell them, you know, when Miss Wynn was growing up, I wanted to play basketball. And my mom told me, no, that's for boys only. And I'm like, what? And I really like the color blue. My mom's like, no, that's a boy color. And we always go back, is there such a thing as boy girl colors? Like, if even though I'm a girl, can I play basketball and football if I really, really, really, really like it? And the kids are like, Yeah. And it's just one of those things where I tell my kids, like, you know, and then when they see that their teacher went through this, it's like that empathy piece is starting. It's like, oh, poor Miss Wen. Like she was told that she couldn't eat that or she couldn't have this and she couldn't play that game because of who she was. And it just opens that box of like, well, let's talk about Dr. King or Rosa Parks or Amelia Earhart. And it just, it just opens it up. And we have, you know, and in my classroom, we talk about like the various different months that we have. So we celebrate Black History Month and Women's History Month. So, you know, and my kids love just making it exciting. Like, you know, who what what Black leader are we gonna learn about today? And they're only like a page long, you know, and the kids are like, what did this person do? And this the little things that they pick up and take away, like, oh, that person invented peanut butter, and I love peanut butter, just little things like that. Um, and even at a at a even younger level, you have this one called like Molly, Molly Lou is one of my favorite characters because this girl obviously is just, you know, she's a unique looking character. And guess what? No matter what anyone says about her, she does what she likes. People call her names, people pick on her, and she's like, ah, whatever. And that's what I want my kids to take away from my classroom is that you're gonna hear things that are gonna be hurtful. You're gonna hear things that are not nice and it's gonna make you sad. It's okay to cry about it, it's okay to be angry about it, but it shouldn't change who you are. If you get made fun of for liking certain things or like being able to do certain things and people make fun of you for it, it's fine. Let's let's talk about it. And it's good to cry. That's another thing I want to make sure that everyone in my classroom understands it's okay to be angry, it's okay to cry. I I don't know at what point in our years of teaching when people were saying, like, don't cry, it's not okay. I can because I grew up like that. Do not cry. It's not okay to cry. And here I am as a teacher and as an auntie. It's okay to cry. Let's cry it out. I feel good after I cry. And every time my kids sit there and I'm like hugging them or we're just sitting there and they cry out their feelings. Do you feel better? It just feels so good just to get it out. Now we're ready to talk about it when we talk about it. But just you know, and I love having books that I can just like go back to like, remember that little boy and they told him he couldn't do that? That's gonna be you. Okay, so what if they say that you shouldn't do that? Do you want to do it? Be like him and do what you want to do. And it's just like, I mean, books are the way. I just there's so many in our library that we hopefully can continue reading, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:09

Yeah, and helping students understand that emotions are part of life and part of processing difficult things is having difficult emotions. And I love that you center that. I was thinking as you were talking through the books and and about how I think there's some belief among some people in this country that uh educators, some educators are just sort of like sitting down small children and saying, like, okay, so today we're gonna talk about transgender people. And uh, you know, and and what you show just the that selection of books is how identity is so important in helping students think of identity, especially young students, but it it's you do it in a way that is it meets them where they are and gets them thinking deeply without this sort of uh characterized, ham-handed approach that some people think educators take.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

I I can't stand that. Like we so somewhere along the line, as educators, we got labeled of like, hey, this is what they're doing. It's like, no, we got math, reading, and writing. And like there was like a teacher comedian that said it best that he was like accused of like teaching a certain agenda and turning the kids gay or whatever. And he's like, Lady, I just want your child to write his name on his paper the right way. And it's really, that's really what it is. People don't understand that as teachers, like, we don't come in like this is what I'm gonna talk about today. If it comes up, we gotta figure out the most efficient way, the best way, the most proper way, and the way that we can handle it to where no feelings are hurt and everyone is feeling acknowledged. We don't come in there every day, like, okay, how am I gonna do this? No, no, I want to teach math, I want to teach reading and writing, and then celebrate whatever month it is, because there's so many celebrations in the world. That's not our goal. Like, our goal is like if it comes up, we want your children to feel hurt. We want them to feel like they are human, like their their feelings and their beliefs and everything matters. Like, even like the like I said, the littlest things to the biggest things. Like, I hear you and I understand how you feel. And that's a great question. And um, I'm really happy you brought that up. And it's just like, like that's it's so silly to talk about. Like, right, as a teacher, you're like, I have so much I have to get through. And it's like kind of an insult, like that you would sit there and think that this is what our motive is. It's really not. If it comes up, yeah, it's it's really not like this. If it comes up, it comes up. And that's not on us, it's like it's a valid question that these kids are wondering and curious about.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

Yeah, there's an organic nature to teaching.

SPEAKER_02 28:44

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

That if you haven't been in the classroom, maybe it's hard to see. As you said, like as a teacher, you are making decisions all day. There's a whole thing with right, there's a whole thing with teaching, there's like dis decision-making fatigue because you're constantly having to make all these decisions and particularly when issues come up. Um, so just to as we wrap up here, if if there's a kindergarten teacher, a first grade teacher, or early an early elementary teacher listening right now who has been uh maybe feels a bit overwhelmed, maybe because of the political environment, and is uh been feeling a bit paralyzed or struggling with what what do I do when my young students bring up topics that I know could be hot button or controversial? What advice would you have for those teachers on how they can, as we go into this new school year, how they can be ready for those moments?

SPEAKER_02 29:38

I would tell them you're here. So you know where your heart is. You're you're here because you want to make a difference. You're here because you love children and you want to teach them and you want to help them grow, and you're here because you're passionate about making the world a better place. So tell my teachers and my students like the same thing, treat others the way you want to be treated. So respect that student, respect yourself. Most importantly, you have to take yourself in. Like, don't try to think that you have to go above and beyond. Sometimes with our kids, the simplest answer is good. And and just know that these kids are living on every single word that you say because you're like they're they're fairy princes, you're their hero, like you're everything to them. Like we hear all the time. Parents will say, like, well, I said that at home, but they won't listen. But oh, because Miss Wynn said it, now we have to do it. So that just gives you that, oh like that the power. It's not the power, it's just like, wow, like your words really matter to them. So make your words count and don't just give them an answer just to give them an answer. Make it like as truthful as you can, as honest as you can, and just know that you know you're validating them as people, not as a five-year-old, not as children, like as a human being. Like treat them the way you wanted to be treated when you were that age and you were curious about certain things. Did people address it? Or were you just dismissed because your questions didn't matter? So that's what I would tell teachers.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

Beautiful. And Kat, I really this uh interview has really highlighted what a fabulous, thoughtful teacher you are. Uh, which I knew, but now my audience knows as well. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk today.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

Thank you so much for having me. And I can't wait to talk to you again soon.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Huge thanks to Kat Wynn for joining me and giving me a lot to think about, but most importantly, helping me see how what she does and what I do are perhaps more similar than I had realized. The authenticity, the honesty, and the willingness to guide students through difficult topics, difficult times is something we all share. And uh I really appreciate Kat coming on to uh give me that perspective. Also shared some great books, so be sure to check the show notes for a complete list of all the wonderful picture books that Kat uh brought up. Um if you're an early childhood educator, you'll want to get your hands on those books. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. What's the big idea? I hope your school year is off to a great start. Uh I hope you're pacing yourself for the uh uh the marathon that is a school year. See, I'm just gonna use that cliche metaphor right there. The marathon. Uh thanks again for listening. Tune in next time.